Lindemann: Till's solo project

[Vallor]

If the threats were sent to the girls and their relatives directly, you won't see them, and if they were on their IG or other SoMe accounts that are now deactivated or deleted you won't see them there either. I don't doubt they got them, one did try to report it to the police.

I see what I get from lunatics when I discuss politics on Twitter and therefore now have a protected address and unlisted number, and I believe these girls a more vulnerable. At least I live in a country that take cyberthreats somewhat seriously.

Well, media loves to exaggerate things a lot, this is why I don't believe there were any real threats, though it is possible, especially if some of those girls are from muslim families than threats gonna be genuine and they would have to run (there is a pornstar from Dagestan that may get killed if she ever comes home).

[The Rose]

If the threats were sent to the girls and their relatives directly, you won't see them, and if they were on their IG or other SoMe accounts that are now deactivated or deleted you won't see them there either. I don't doubt they got them, one did try to report it to the police.

I see what I get from lunatics when I discuss politics on Twitter and therefore now have a protected address and unlisted number, and I believe these girls a more vulnerable. At least I live in a country that take cyberthreats somewhat seriously.

[Vallor]

I tried looking up any threats to those girls and didn't find any. They were mostly harrassed & trolled online, since 4chan leaked their instagrams & other social media accounts (most of those are already closed). As for "Male State" - thats a fcking disgusting sexists group that was banned once and even went to court, but... alas its still around.

As for those girls... I really am not sure what to say, sure they are consenting adults, but if I saw my child do sh*t like that I have no idea how I would have reacted (and girls in that video were REALLY young, like 18-24yo), so outrage should have been expected.

[Snake]

The Till the End video is in very poor taste product that got me to think of Till as a very lousy artist when outside of the context of Rammstein. I also don't think that the girls that "collaborated" in the video to be paragons of wisdom and forethought. Having said all of that, they are still entitled to freedom of expression and to live their lives however they see fit, and they do not deserve any of this harassment. I do feel sorry for them and wish they can pull through (even if, ultimately, they should have anticipated something like this could happen).

[The Rose]

I think some backlash to the girls was to be expected, just see how the girl on Reddit was treated. Some really nasty comment towards her. The "grown-ups" should have foreseen this, but not the harassment and threats.

As for the concerts, I didn't check were in Europe R+ are playing this year, but you're right, it was most likely a Lindemann concert that was meant (so Peter would be the one annoyed).

The whole thing (I think) shows rather poor judgement on Till's and Zoran's side

[Chrisss Nofff]

I feel very sorry for the girls caught up in all this, they are all very young and maybe didn't consider any consequences, let alone this, which is outrageous.

Plus if Rammstein have to cancel any show in Russia because of this, I think there will be trouble within the band.

So it could very well be the last album (apart maybe from the surplus already recorded) and the last tour

It has been pointed out that Male State and the politican Roman Kotik probably don't know the difference between Lindemann and Rammstein, since they were calling for the concerts in March to be cancelled (Rammstein doesn't even tour in Russia this year).

It's a tricky situation. On the one hand, I can see that Lindemann wish to de-escelate the situation, on the other hand cancelling shows or removing the music videos would essentially mean Male State winning.

Again, I know this whole harrasment situation came pretty unexpected, but still it seems like Till and Zoran did not plan this out at all.

[The Rose]

I feel very sorry for the girls caught up in all this, they are all very young and maybe didn't consider any consequences, let alone this, which is outrageous.

Plus if Rammstein have to cancel any show in Russia because of this, I think there will be trouble within the band.

So it could very well be the last album (apart maybe from the surplus already recorded) and the last tour

[Chrisss Nofff]

Here is a detailed article translated by a reddit user named Creative_Recovery

"Lindemann launched the Na Chui project. On February 14, he posted the Till the End video, shot in St. Petersburg, on an adult website. Girls from Russia took part in the filming. In the video, they have sex with a musician, and all explicit scenes are shown uncensored.

A few days later, users of "Dvacha", calling the actresses "our Russian" Natashki "", published links to their pages on social networks. They claim to have found all the girls, including the “mother” who “supplied” them. After this, the actresses began to receive insults and threats, now the pages of most of them have been deleted.

Subscribers of the “Male State” public on VKontakte joined the bullying. The court sentenced its creator Vladislav Pozdnyakov to a suspended sentence for inciting hatred of women, but then canceled the sentence in connection with the decriminalization of Article 282. Four more persons involved in the case received real sentences.

Pozdnyakov claims that he did not call for "killing the participants" of the video. “I said something like this:“ If in Russia there is a lone nationalist who kills them, I will not feel sorry for them. ” There was no call to kill, beat, and so on, ”he wrote. Pozdnyakov assured that “on his part there were no public calls for harassment” of girls who “dishonored the Russian nation”. “At least in open areas,” he added.

At the same time, Pozdnyakov confirmed that he had threatened one of the actresses, and published audio recordings that he sent her. He also appealed to the Ministry of Internal Affairs with a request to attract “at least” her for the production and circulation of pornographic materials.

"I am very afraid"

Some of the girls mentioned by the two said that they did not star in the video, but collaborated with the leader of Rammstein on another project. Actress Lyubov Ivanova wrote on instagram that she took part in the filming of the Platz Eins video, and she learned about the existence of the second video only on the day of the premiere.

“There can be no my participation there. Any representative of project management can confirm this, ”she says. Ivanova added that “the threats do come”: “Someone is threatening reprisals, someone is alerting relatives.”

The actress, who wished not to give her name, told Fontanka that even those who did not take part in the filming began to receive threats: “They began to write to those who simply had photographs with Till, but they were not involved in the filming, to extras. I know at least three of these girls. About 20 girls from the filming participants receive threats. ”

The girl added that "very afraid." Users write to her that they know her address. The address of another actress they posted in one of the telegram channels.

“My family is in shock. Letters were sent to my brother that they were looking for a sister. I have no one to turn to, I have no high-ranking friends. I only have a police number, but I understand that because of simple threats they will not help and will not give protection, ”the Fontanka interlocutor said, adding that she had stopped leaving the house.

In the meantime, Roman Kotik, an assistant to the deputy of the legislative assembly and entrepreneur from Novosibirsk, turned to the mayor of the city with a request to ban the March concert of Rammstein.

“The German performer is touring the land for which our grandfathers fought, propagandizing debauchery and violence, singing frivolous songs in German and using Russian women to satisfy their sexual needs. The question arises: 75 years of Victory over whom we will celebrate? ” - the letter says.

https://woman.forumdaily.com/en/lide...-i-ugrozhayut/




To Summarize:

1. Unprotected BDSM Sex Orgy Porno Video: On February 14th Till Lindemann released an arty porn video (or a sexual art video depending on your take on it?) to promote the song "Till The End" (which featured Till Lindemanns vocals). The music video featured Till Lindemann having unprotected sex in an orgy with various members of his "harem" (many members of which are of Russian nationality).
2. Not Pornstars: Although all parties were consenting, only one of the girls in the video was a professional porn actress (an American/Californian pornstar who goes under the name Charlotte Sartre).
3. Russian Location: The video was filmed in the city of St Petersburg.
4. Context: Till The End is song by Na Chui which features Till Lindemann on vocals and is a follow-up song to the Lindemann song Platz Eins (whose music video contained some footage shot from the same orgy). Although the sound of the song is very different to Platz Eins, together when combined with other recent releases, it is supposed to form a broader narrative to do with Till Lindemann.
5. Not a porn company: The video was shot and directed by German music video and advertising directer Zoran Bihac (who is also a friend of Till Lindemann). Although Till The End made its debut on a pornography site (VISIT-X), Zoran's company Flaming Star is not a porn company.
6. Easily Identifiable online: Most of the girls in Till The End featured were age 20-25+, had pressences on Instagram (where some listed their credentials as doing modelling, acting and performance) and were easily identifiable due to them using their real names on Instagram. After the release of the video, it was made even more easy to identify who the girls were after the director Zoran and Alena Makeeva (a Russian model who plays a role of helping introduce and get groupies into Rammsteins after-show parties and procuring girls for Till Lindemanns harem) began tagging the girls featured in the video in posts online (which they in turn were happy about at the time, with some posting up pictures of themselves in response to the posts).
7. 2ch gets involved: Users of the website 2ch then posted images of all the girls who participated in Till The End as well as of Alena Makeeva, posting with links to their social media pages and as well as revealing other private information. Death threats and other hate mail then ensued towards all the women (which forced most of them to delete their social media pages and posts).
8. Male State gets involved: However members of the Russian far-right group "Male State" then decided to join in on the online attacks. The creator of the group (Vladislav Pozdnyakov) announced "If in Russia there is a lone nationalist who kills them, I will not feel sorry for them", causing all the women to fear for their lives.
9. The Accusations: The reasons why Male State took such offence to Till The End was because it was filmed in the year of Russia's 75th anniversary of Victory Day (the surrender of Nazi Germany) and the Soviet Union’s liberation of WWII prisoners of war. They believe that Till Lindemann (a German man whose father was a Nazi and who is also the frontman of Rammstein, which in the past, the press have sometimes accused of being Nazi's) filming himself having an orgy (which featured a lot of rough/abusive sex) with Russian women in the Russian city of St Petersburg and then releasing the footage as part of a project titled "Na Chui" (a Russian swearword, which literally means 'on a cock', but in context it's used like 'fuck' as in 'fuck off'), was not an innocent coincidence and that he intentionally released Till The End as a deliberate middle finger to the people of Russia. The group feel that the women (who are mostly of Russian nationality) who appeared in the "obscene" video are treasonous to their country and an affront to its values (the girls were called by the group "Disgrace to the nation actresses").
10. Families and friends recieve threats, members of the public get dragged in: After identifying the girls, families and friends of the girls also began to recieve threats. Home addresses of the girls were also posted online. Also, girls which had simply had selfies taken with Till Lindemann while he was travelling through the city of St Petersburg at the time of the shooting (but who had not featured in Till The End nor Platz Eins) began to recieve hate mail and threats online after being identified through their selfie photos with him on Instagram.
11. No Legal Protection: One of the girls featured Till The End tried going to the police about the death threats that she and her family were recieving however her case was dismissed under Article 282 and her lawyer was not able to offer her any legal protection from the threats.
12. Platz Eins actress not informed: Actress Lyubov Ivanova wrote on instagram that she took part in the filming of the Platz Eins video and that she only learned about the existence of the second video (Till The End) on the day of its premiere (and since then, she too has been recieving threats).
13. Outcry from Russia, calls for Rammstein Russia Tour Ban: Roman Kotik, an assistant to the deputy of the legislative assembly and entrepreneur from Novosibirsk, turned to the mayor of the city with a request to ban the March concert of Rammstein. “The German performer is touring the land for which our grandfathers fought, propagandizing debauchery and violence, singing frivolous songs in German and using Russian women to satisfy their sexual needs. The question arises: 75 years of Victory over whom we will celebrate? ” - the letter says. The esteemed veteran Russian singer Lev Leshchenko also recently denounced in a Moscow radio show Till Lindemann's release, calling it "disgusting, vulgar and dirty", saying that he felt that Lindemann went too far in trying to be controversial, that the whole thing was an affront to the countries Orthodox morals and values and he agreed that Rammstein should be banned from doing tours in Russia.
14. 23 victims and counting: So far about 20 women who were involved in the filming of Platz Eins and Till The End have been targetted and 3 women who were not involved in the filming (but who took selfies with Till while he was travelling through St Petersburg) have also been targetted. Women and families affected have complained about being legally abandoned to fend for themselves alone.

[Chrisss Nofff]

So it seems a lot has gone wrong since the release of "Till the End". A russian political group called "Male state" started harrassing and sending death threats to the girls involved in the two videos "Platz Eins" and "Till the End". The main reason "Male state" is outraged, is that Russian women had sex in a pornographic film with a german celebrity, 75 years after the Soviet Union along with the allies won World War II. "Male state" also accused Till of being a nazi, and the women in the videos as "traitors".

[Vallor]

Whatever Zoran says, I don't believe for one second that Rammstein didn't know about this, and didn't agree to this (Till having sex backstage, filming it, and making it part of Lindemann concert). It would be too too big of a risk to include Rammtein into this without the approval of other members.

I do like the Lindemann project. I think F&M is better album than Skills in Pills, and for most parts I have enjoyed every music videos from the album. But for me the porn stunt has resulted in great loss of respect for Till and maybe even Rammstein. Maybe my opinion will change if there is some kind of reasonable explanation for this in the future, but for know I think it's just a cheap and embarassing way to shock people.

I'm attending a Lindemann concert in a couple of weeks here in Finland, and to tell the truth, I'm a bit scared how will I feel about it. I'm also attending Rammstein show next summer in Estonia, and I'm scared about the same thing. It's not that I wouldn't enjoy the music and show anymore, it's just that... my disrispect for this whole porn thing is suprisingly big. It's just not about Till, I feel great disrispect for every other bands or artists that have to use sex to make their music or concerts more interesting. I wouldn't have expected Lindemann to get this low, but that's how things are now, and it must be accepted. It's a pity.

I have to agree with you in almost everything you said, except respecting artists themselfs, as I said previously much more sane thing is to respect and like their music not them. Because even psychotic maniacs can create beautiful things it doesn't mean you should feel for them the same respect you feel for their art.

[Salmari]

Whatever Zoran says, I don't believe for one second that Rammstein didn't know about this, and didn't agree to this (Till having sex backstage, filming it, and making it part of Lindemann concert). It would be too too big of a risk to include Rammtein into this without the approval of other members.

I do like the Lindemann project. I think F&M is better album than Skills in Pills, and for most parts I have enjoyed every music videos from the album. But for me the porn stunt has resulted in great loss of respect for Till and maybe even Rammstein. Maybe my opinion will change if there is some kind of reasonable explanation for this in the future, but for know I think it's just a cheap and embarassing way to shock people.

I'm attending a Lindemann concert in a couple of weeks here in Finland, and to tell the truth, I'm a bit scared how will I feel about it. I'm also attending Rammstein show next summer in Estonia, and I'm scared about the same thing. It's not that I wouldn't enjoy the music and show anymore, it's just that... my disrispect for this whole porn thing is suprisingly big. It's just not about Till, I feel great disrispect for every other bands or artists that have to use sex to make their music or concerts more interesting. I wouldn't have expected Lindemann to get this low, but that's how things are now, and it must be accepted. It's a pity.

[Vallor]

I never doubted it was consensual, just in poor taste.

Did you see the thread where someone asked Zoran if R+ knew what Till was up to under the stage and Zoran said, NO, they didn't. The comments there quickly turns really vile, but what I would really like to know is how the other members thinks of that stunt. I can imagine two or more being upset or even angry about it, even though they knew his (uptil now at least) private side. Not just guesses, but real reactions, but I think they'll take amongst themselves, at least for now.

Considering even Peter from Lindemann didn't take any part in this? I would guess some members of R+ could be really upset...

[The Rose]

I never doubted it was consensual, just in poor taste.

Did you see the thread where someone asked Zoran if R+ knew what Till was up to under the stage and Zoran said, NO, they didn't. The comments there quickly turns really vile, but what I would really like to know is how the other members thinks of that stunt. I can imagine two or more being upset or even angry about it, even though they knew his (uptil now at least) private side. Not just guesses, but real reactions, but I think they'll take amongst themselves, at least for now.

[Snake]

I keep thinking about this porno stunt. I once heard somebody say that the the point of art is to have a conversation, and in that regard, Till absolutely succeeded. Nobody is indiferent to this stunt. I am willing to accept all this debacle as legit art, but I would suggest that it is terrible art. This stuff made me come to the conclusion that, in my subjective opinion, Till Lindemann is an awesome frontman, but a lousy artist. The reason why I suggest him to be a lousy artist is because using sex to get people to talk is easy and cheap. Everybody with enough fame, money, and connections could create something like Till the End. And this is not an opinion based strictly on the latest videoclips. It goes back to the days when he launched a museum exhibition with all sorts of lousy artwork coubled together with dildos. And lets us also not forget his "Doctor Dick" project. This is all low hanging fruit.

Another random thought: I think there is an argument to be made about being selfish of him to do this. Because despite the fact that everything depicted in the video is consented, it is still going to disturb a lot of fans. Till fullfilled his artistic aspirations at the cost of upseting a lot of people to whom he is a role model and a hero. Fans are still going to feel dissapointed at him regardless of not existing any inherent wrongdoing in this stunt. This might even hurt Rammstein and people associated with him. So at the end of the day, was it worth it to express yourself in this manner, Till?

But then again, if Till succedded in getting people to talk, doesnt it also make him a successful artist? Maybe that on itself makes it all worth it?

[Chrisss Nofff]

That discussion surely turned into a shitshow pretty quickly. The girl in the AMA has some credibility, due to her willingness to send proof to the moderators. It seems like most people seem to be somewhat relieved by the fact that the porn shoots were indeed proffesional and 100% voluntary. Some feared that Till simply filmed one-night-stands and posted it online without any of the women knowing.

Again, I wasn't outraged by the porn itself, but I just found the videos themselves unimpressive. I liked parts of "Platz Eins", "Knebel" was decent but "Till the end" was really not my cup of tea. My biggest problem was the "backstage"-clip. It just seemed unproffesional for Till to do this during a show. Also, it felt weird that Rammstein was dragged into the Lindemann solo-project.

As for Till's wellbeing, let's hope the girl is right and this is just a more "unfiltered" side of Till that always was there. As long as he is happy and everything is voluntay, this is just a matter of taste.