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FORUM RULES ABOUT WEB-BASED LINKS TO MUSIC AND VIDEO'S

Based on latest discussions on this forum, and studiing copyright laws, it is necessary to state out new forum mandatory rules, effective immediately, so, here we are.

LINKS TO MUSIC & VIDEOS: what is legal/what is not.
NEW RULES in the forum state:

From now on in our forum users shal NOT POST TOPICS THAT containin the following :
• Requests for or links to MP3s, music videos, or other files of questionable legality
• Bootlegs

So, please do not POST A LINK TO music or videos which does not directly originate from an officially legal site.

An OFFICIALLY LEGAL SITE is: rammstein.com or rammstein.de, universal music, a legitimate music site like MTV or VIVA. The links must be direct and linked only to the approved site. Any links which have copied and transferred the music or videos from an official legal site to ANYWHERE else are NOT OFFICIAL.

• Do not ASK FOR A LINK to music or videos. If there is a legal site for either listening or viewing, xTERNAL will provide the information in the NEWS section of www.RAMMSTEIN-EUROPE.com.

WHAT YOU CAN DO in the forums: You can DISCUSS a new song or a new video.

WHAT YOU CANNOT DO in the forums: provide illegal links or ask for links, give directions of any kind as to where something might be found (examples: file-sharing, other fansites, etc.). Screen caps will be allowed (within reason) AFTER a video has been made available through an OFFICIAL LEGAL LINK. Fan remixes of songs will be allowed (within reason) after the song has been officially released.

The above restrictions are necessary not because we are being “damn babies” or “. The reason is simply that RAMMSTEIN-EUROPE has made the decision to not be a facilitator of illegal activities involving copyrighted material. The reason for that is also clear. Rammstein’s Management has shown aggressive behaviour in combating copyright infringement.

Anyone who violates the spirit of the aforementioned expansion/explanation of what the RULES mean here as applied to music and videos (and this also includes the "making of videos") will meet up with one of the following consequences:

POST BLOCKED, LINK ERASED AND WORSE.... BANNED IF NECESSARY.

If you have ANY questions about what may or may not be acceptable here, you can always PM a Moderator and ask first before posting something that might get you in trouble here.

•any links to www.youtube.com (or other sharing sites of a similar nature)are generally not allowed.
While some videos like fan made items or spoof animations are allowed, we do not allow linking to youtube. Oftentimes there is/are illegal videos of Rammstein performances to the side of the linked videos. Actual Rammstein Videos which are very illegal to be hosted by that site - therefore we cannot allow links to youtube to be allowed.

So, links to youtube are now allowed - ONLY IF it is a fanmade video by you, and does not contain bootleg footage or footage of live performances or released performances. Stills from photos found on the net are OK. A montage is OK. Clips of released footage are NOT OK.

Please try to understand that sometimes while we may allow a certain individuals fanmade videos, and deny another persons it is usually because the content in it could get the forums in trouble.

Also if some individuals post their fanmade video and it turns out to be bootleg footage that they filmed themselves at a concert and consider that "fanmade" - then we will have to reverse the ruling on allowing fanmade videos PERIOD!

Here is an update on what is considered "fanmade".
Fanmade is fanmade. You did it yourself. Like cut and paste. You creatd everything yourself. No footage filmed by someone else no clips. Still images are OK.
For example:
If you go out and find 6 banana slugs in the yard, dress them up in LAB outfits, and put the skinniest one in a paper boat and play the music to SEEMANN on a kazoo. That is fanmade.

If you have a coverband and you do your own video or you have footage of YOUR band's performance. That is fanmade.

If you have images that you sketched of how you think the video for a song should have been and you put it to music - I think we can allow that.

Use your creativity.

IF YOU SEE VIOLATION OF THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, REPORT IT BY USING THE EXCLAMATION MARK IN THE TOP RIGHT CORNER OF RELEVANT POST.


xTERNAL&MR_FLOOO
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Alter Mann analysis

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  • Alter Mann analysis

    Ok, people, buckle up! Hold on to your hats and glasses and remain seated. Make sure to keep legs and arms in the vehicle, because Waidmann takes you on a ride through one of his monstrosities again: a long analysis of the song Alter Mann. Not for people who can’t spare a minute.

    This song always seemed highly philosophical to me. Not only after carefully listening to and close reading the lyrics, but even before that. From in the beginning the mystical keyboard sounds and the title itself evoked wisdom and philosophy to me. And to reveal what wisdom lay in this song, I read and interpreted the lyrics. The Affenknecht English lyric page describes the contents as following:

    “This song is about a man who watches an old man stare at himself in a reflecting pool and fan the water smooth when it is disrupted. The old man is possessed by the reflection of himself. After seeing this, the one who threw the stone in the beginning looks into the water and sees the same thing the old man saw and also becomes possessed. He then calls for the old man to save him from the same fate. This song is possibly about the cleansing of society.”

    Except for that last sentence, of which I’ll speak later, overall and generally speaking I can agree to this. Most of the online interpretations seem to hold to this tale as well. Only the summary leaves some things out and therefore seems to come to other conclusions than I do. For the record: I don’t disagree with this summary. I only think it’s a bit incomplete and overlooks that there might be more to this song that this brief explanation.
    I begin with the beginning and already find something that everyone seems to overlook, more precisely the first verse: “Er wartet auf den Mittagswind”. That already raises a question for me, namely: “why? Why is he waiting for the afternoon wind?”
    When you look to the rest of the lyrics, it doesn’t seem very logic. Is he waiting for the wind, ready to smoothen the water when it comes? Possibly. But it could mean something else too, if you take a closer look at the word “Mittagswind”. In German, “Mittagswind” can mean afternoon’s wind, as every translator of Alter Mann chooses to read it. But what these translations overlook is that “Mittagswind” in German more often means something else, namely ‘southern wind’ (like in French the word ‘midi’ also can mean either ‘midday’ but often also ‘southern’), a warm wind that often announces a storm to come.
    One interpretation doesn’t rule out the other, of course. But it does mean that the second one is at least as plausible, and from a linguistic perspective even more likely. Anyway, whatever the meaning (knowing Rammstein it’s likely both of them at the same time), something is coming and whether it’s a storm or just wind, it’s an unwelcome thing that’s coming. The man wants a clear view of the water, a smooth surface to gaze upon. But for what reason? What’s there to see?

    Many interpretations think the man sees something in the water that obsesses him (like the Affenknecht summary does). It’s quite acceptable, like many people think, that it’s his own reflection that draws his attention. That thought is backed up by the lyrics. The chorus says that the water should be your mirror. And being obsessed by your own reflection isn’t an unknown feeling in western literature of course. It could remind us of the Greek mythological tale of Narcissus, the man who became in love with his own reflection in the river water. This comparison seems legit when you look at the other details of the story: Narcissus, like the old man in the Rammstein song, stares in the water, gets upset by anything that disturbs the water, smoothens it constantly and eventually dies by the riverside.
    So, is the song about Narcissus? Well, despite the many similarities, there’s the modern invention of the ‘fan’ that undermines this Greek Mythology thought, as well as the other man in the song that befalls the same fate. Narcissus his obsession was a curse inflicted by the Gods, so the situation in Alter Mann, where another man gains the same obsession would be impossible in the ancient Greek story. And the rest of the chorus brings us even further from this all, as I will come to discuss now.

    The chorus is in English is:
    the water should be your mirror. Only when it’s smooth, you will see how much fairy tale is left for you. And for salvation you will flee.
    The second phrase is weirdly formulated. All online translations however choose to change the original text and reformulating it in plural, by making “how many fairy tales are left for you”. I personally can’t legitimize to change the original from singular to plural, so I won’t. I’d like to keep close to the text, no matter how weird it is. And I don’t think Till sung it in singular by mistake or so, that’s very unlikely, definitely because he kept the singular form in all live performances I could find.
    So, what we get is the following: when you can see yourself clearly in the water, you’ll see how much fairy tale is left. And that’s apparently not a good thing, because for salvation you will flee.
    What does that mean? Maybe that mankind should get a good look at himself? And when he does so, he might see that there’s not much beauty to it (anymore). The fairy tale of the goodness of mankind, of people itself is after all a fairy tale, not true, just something you think you see when you’re not really looking clearly at all. And so the man wants salvation, looking at himself, wanting to see who he really is and finding a solution for this problematic image. He found the truth, can’t stop looking at it and in the same time wants to get rid of it (salvation). This duality is of course typical Rammstein: wanting and not wanting, being freed and imprisoned at the same time, enlightening and darkness…

    Note that the protagonist in the song takes it worse than the old man. The old man just watching the water, smoking his pipe and keeping surface smooth. The other man however, taking the old man’s place, sees the same and stares into the water like his predecessor, but not in his calm, thoughtful way. The protagonist screams for the old man every day, so that he might save him from this situation. Where the old man was obsessed, the protagonist is also quite dramatic.

    As well as this interpretation fits, I think we can read it in a slightly different way as well. As the song is called old man, we are also invited to think about age in our search for meaning. In this case, we can read it as if the mirror doesn’t reveal who you are, but is a vanity instrument, showing you how you are aging. When you look in the clear water, you see the traces of time, like the gray hairs, wrinkles, face lines etc. You see only how much “fairy tale” (the life you intended, schemed, looked forward to have, with all the many plans a person has) there’s still left for you, how you can’t beat the clock and operate beyond time. Everyone is aging at each time of the day, every second and only by looking at your own reflection, you can see how much, to what extend and how fast. This realization of age and aging turns obsessive, depressing for the one submitted to this epiphany, making him want to flee.

    The Affenknecht interpretation ends with the thought that the song might be about cleaning of society. My immediate questions are: what social group? And what implies that there’s any “cleaning” in this song?

    Maybe getting ready of the elder people? (old man). Well, there is talk about a ‘new wind’, bringing change, leading to the situation where an old man is replaced by a younger person (or he wouldn’t call the other one “old”). But the protagonist isn’t the one who got rid of the old man, nor did he bring something new. On the contrary: he tends to do the exact same thing and he doesn’t cope well, in fact he cries for the old man to save him. Maybe this can be read as revolution or renewing not working out or so, but social cleaning? I don’t see it. Maybe someone among you do? Do tell me !

    And as always counts: share your opinions about this with me ! Be honest and true, preferably in a polite way.
    Dort wo der Horizont
    Sich mit dem Meer verbindet
    Dort wollt' ich auf dich warten
    Auf das du mich dort findest

  • #2
    Again, great job. Alter Mann is such a different song than the other songs of the band, it's weird that they didn't write any "siblings" to this song.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by MonsieurSander View Post
      Again, great job. Alter Mann is such a different song than the other songs of the band, it's weird that they didn't write any "siblings" to this song.
      Thx!

      Indeed it is, especially from that period. If I'd heared about this song without any context, I'd reckon it would be a Rosenrot-outtake. No "Körperlichkeit" or sexuality in this song, no, just spiritual philosophy. Only maybe Seemann belongs a little bit in the same spirit.
      Dort wo der Horizont
      Sich mit dem Meer verbindet
      Dort wollt' ich auf dich warten
      Auf das du mich dort findest

      Comment


      • #4
        Another great analysis. Really well-written, it's nice that you pay attention to every detail in the lyrics. Alter Mann is lyrically very different to most early Rammstein songs.
        Last edited by Dunkelheit; 04-06-2016, 11:06 AM.

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        • #5
          wow Amazing work as always, I have to find time to read several translations and read it again... without understanding translations are an act of faith.

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          • #6
            Thank you people!
            Dort wo der Horizont
            Sich mit dem Meer verbindet
            Dort wollt' ich auf dich warten
            Auf das du mich dort findest

            Comment

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