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FORUM RULES ABOUT WEB-BASED LINKS TO MUSIC AND VIDEO'S

Based on latest discussions on this forum, and studiing copyright laws, it is necessary to state out new forum mandatory rules, effective immediately, so, here we are.

LINKS TO MUSIC & VIDEOS: what is legal/what is not.
NEW RULES in the forum state:

From now on in our forum users shal NOT POST TOPICS THAT containin the following :
• Requests for or links to MP3s, music videos, or other files of questionable legality
• Bootlegs

So, please do not POST A LINK TO music or videos which does not directly originate from an officially legal site.

An OFFICIALLY LEGAL SITE is: rammstein.com or rammstein.de, universal music, a legitimate music site like MTV or VIVA. The links must be direct and linked only to the approved site. Any links which have copied and transferred the music or videos from an official legal site to ANYWHERE else are NOT OFFICIAL.

• Do not ASK FOR A LINK to music or videos. If there is a legal site for either listening or viewing, xTERNAL will provide the information in the NEWS section of www.RAMMSTEIN-EUROPE.com.

WHAT YOU CAN DO in the forums: You can DISCUSS a new song or a new video.

WHAT YOU CANNOT DO in the forums: provide illegal links or ask for links, give directions of any kind as to where something might be found (examples: file-sharing, other fansites, etc.). Screen caps will be allowed (within reason) AFTER a video has been made available through an OFFICIAL LEGAL LINK. Fan remixes of songs will be allowed (within reason) after the song has been officially released.

The above restrictions are necessary not because we are being “damn babies” or “. The reason is simply that RAMMSTEIN-EUROPE has made the decision to not be a facilitator of illegal activities involving copyrighted material. The reason for that is also clear. Rammstein’s Management has shown aggressive behaviour in combating copyright infringement.

Anyone who violates the spirit of the aforementioned expansion/explanation of what the RULES mean here as applied to music and videos (and this also includes the "making of videos") will meet up with one of the following consequences:

POST BLOCKED, LINK ERASED AND WORSE.... BANNED IF NECESSARY.

If you have ANY questions about what may or may not be acceptable here, you can always PM a Moderator and ask first before posting something that might get you in trouble here.

•any links to www.youtube.com (or other sharing sites of a similar nature)are generally not allowed.
While some videos like fan made items or spoof animations are allowed, we do not allow linking to youtube. Oftentimes there is/are illegal videos of Rammstein performances to the side of the linked videos. Actual Rammstein Videos which are very illegal to be hosted by that site - therefore we cannot allow links to youtube to be allowed.

So, links to youtube are now allowed - ONLY IF it is a fanmade video by you, and does not contain bootleg footage or footage of live performances or released performances. Stills from photos found on the net are OK. A montage is OK. Clips of released footage are NOT OK.

Please try to understand that sometimes while we may allow a certain individuals fanmade videos, and deny another persons it is usually because the content in it could get the forums in trouble.

Also if some individuals post their fanmade video and it turns out to be bootleg footage that they filmed themselves at a concert and consider that "fanmade" - then we will have to reverse the ruling on allowing fanmade videos PERIOD!

Here is an update on what is considered "fanmade".
Fanmade is fanmade. You did it yourself. Like cut and paste. You creatd everything yourself. No footage filmed by someone else no clips. Still images are OK.
For example:
If you go out and find 6 banana slugs in the yard, dress them up in LAB outfits, and put the skinniest one in a paper boat and play the music to SEEMANN on a kazoo. That is fanmade.

If you have a coverband and you do your own video or you have footage of YOUR band's performance. That is fanmade.

If you have images that you sketched of how you think the video for a song should have been and you put it to music - I think we can allow that.

Use your creativity.

IF YOU SEE VIOLATION OF THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, REPORT IT BY USING THE EXCLAMATION MARK IN THE TOP RIGHT CORNER OF RELEVANT POST.


xTERNAL&MR_FLOOO
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How much "live" are Rammstein`s live albums?

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  • Chrisss Nofff
    started a topic How much "live" are Rammstein`s live albums?

    How much "live" are Rammstein`s live albums?

    The time has come again for another 1000+ word Chrisss Nofff article. If you got a ridiculous amount of patients and boredom, grab a cup of tea and read a long. Since the next Rammstein releases will be live DVD`s (whenever they may finally come), I thought we could stay on that topic. PS: The text might end up looking a bit wierd. I wrote everything in Word, because Affenknecht was a little unstabil today and I did not want to start over again.

    How much "live" are Rammstein`s live albums ?


    It´s no secret that artist often fix/re-dub their live recordings, in order to leave a better impression. In the old days (that means something like before 1980), recording a live show was very difficult. Back then the sound equipment was not very reliable. They even had problems recording long dialogues for movies. It is said that about 40% of all dialogue in movies like Star Wars is actually dubbed in post-production. Therefore it was very understandable that artists in the old days would rework their live material in case something went wrong. Capturing things like clean audience sound, was the most difficult. Jimmy Hendricks therefore used samples from chants and applauses from a spanish bullfight in his single Yardbirds. Some artists even went as far as recording new versions of their old songs, adding fake audience sounds and called it "live". Kiss - "Alive II" is by some said to be 96% studio recorded. The first time I noticed dubbing was in Marilyn Manson´s "Guns, God and Goverment" - concert movie. Everything sounded too clean and perfect. The recording was supposedly made in 2001, LA. However amateur recordings of that show revealed that it sounded completely different.

    That being said, with today´s technology no artist that has a record labelcontract and sells out shows, can´t afford good live recording equipment. Therefore, the only excuse artist have today for dubbing, is because they either made mistakes during their concert, or they want to sound better than they actually do. Usually rock/metal bands today overdub parts of vocals, drums, audience sound and partially guitars. Those are usually the hardest elements to get right while performing live.

    Dubbed/fixed elements in Rammstein live material

    I thought I could just go through all the major live material the band has released, and give you my thoughts about how "live" it is. If you have any thoughts or other contributions, continue the list please.


    Live aus Berlin (1999)

    Live aus Berlin was Rammstein´s first live album. Although there is only 1 low quality amateur recording of that show, there are a few things that I am certain of were fixed:

    1. Audience sound: On Rammstein´s website there is an old advertisement from 1998, where Rammstein fans were asked to help record the audience sound for the concert movie. The advertisement can be found here. You can hear on the amateur recording from one of the `98 Berlin shows, that the audience was incredibly loud. However, on the DVD the audience chants and singing is just WAY too loud and clear. Especially during "Du riechst so gut" and the beginning of "Laichzeit".
    2. Till´s vocals on Wilder Wein: This one requires a very good ear. Try to turn on the Live aus Berlin DVD/CD, and listen VERY carefully to Till´s voice on that song. You will realise that there is a very clean and deep backing track that follows his singing during the entire song. You can hear this especially well during the start of the song, and the end of it. I am not entirely sure if this was done in the post-production or if the backing track was also used in the live concert. Another fixed vocal part are the two shouts in "Herzeleid". They sound exactly like on the album, and every other "Sehnsucht tour"-performance. However in this case I am sure that it was just playback/backing track and not dubbing.

    3. Some guitar solos: I have to admit that the I am not entirely sure on this one. The solos in "Heirate mich" and "Rammstein" sound incredibly clean. There is absolutely no scratching or distortion, compared to all the other performances of these songs. I think they either removed some "unclean" noises or dubbed these solos. Or Richard is just a lot better than I think.



    MTV awards, "Ich will" - performance (2001)

    During the live performance of "Ich Will" in 2001 at the MTV awards, several things went wrong: Till´s microphone stopped working during the first couple of seconds, Schneider´s drumming was a little sloppy, Till switched the lines "Könnt ihr uns hören?" and "Könnt ihr uns sehen?" just to name a few. There is another version of this performance without any of these mistakes. It sounds overall quite different. You can find both versions on Youtube.


    Völkerball (2006)

    With the exception of the Japan segment, every single performance on this DVD has good amateur footage/recordings which can be used to compare it to the DVD. The Nimes concert has both video and audio amateur footage. Both are very easy to find on YouTube. There is even a pretty good 50 minute video that can be found on the channel of "SeidBereit". You can also find two very good videos from two of the Brixton Academy concerts on that channel. Oddly enough, I found almost no major evidence of dubbing on this DVD:
    1. The intro of "Du riechst so gut": There was some kind of problem with the keyboard during the start of "Du riechst so gut". There are a lot of weird noises that are being played on a loop. Then all the sudden the keyboard stops working and the band just starts the song. On the DVD we can however hear the standard "Reise, Reise" - tour intro of that song.
    2. Sound level of the vocals: There was some kind of problem with either the microphone or the sound mixing during "Benzin". In any case, if you listen to amateur recordings, and compare it to the DVD, you will hear that the vocals are the exact same, however they are more balanced on the DVD.


    Surprisingly these are the two only differences I found. Of course they edit out things like pauses and "dead airs" between songs. It seems like the band or the directors wanted to keep the little imperfections, since that just helped the DVD get that raw and authentic live feeling. You can hear Till mess up the lyrics here and there. The microphone did not work in the beginning of "Feuer Frei" in London. Little scratch sounds from the guitars at the beginning of "Sonne" in Nimes. Richard starting his solo a little early in "Stein um Stein" etc. I love that the band has kept all these small mistakes. It makes you value the product more, since you know that you have bought a real live album. I hope the band keeps this attitude towards live recordings for their upcoming DVD`s.

    Wacken 3d
    I think it´s so obvious that this performance is dubbed, that I am not even going into much detail on this one. To sum it up really quick:

    • If you listen to the wacken songs that aired on TV, and the other "Du Hast" - proshot festival recordings from that tour (Hurricane, Download), you will hear that the sound is overall very different. Compared to Wacken 3d, the drums have much more bass and the guitars are heavier/lower tuned. Overall the main riffs are also a little faster than usual and shortened down.
    • Till`s vocals are multi-layered, and don´t always match his lips.


    Overall, this one is very understandable. I mean the Wacken movie was more of a "3D experience" movie, than a serious documentary about these musicians. It´s understandable that the director wanted a more impressive sound, instead of the very simple festival TV - recordings. It´s also very obvious that everything is dubbed, since Jakob Hellner (the bands producer) was also the movie´s producer. In addition Till was probably recording Lindemann and Richard was working on Emigrate, while the movie was being made. Recording samples one afternoon and sending them over wouldn’t really be a problem.


    The next live DVD`s?
    One reason for the delays could be that they want to dub/rework something. I really hope they keep their Völkerball standard of only changing minor inconveniences, and not remove every single imperfection. Once the DVD`s come out, I will probably write a similar thread like this.
    Last edited by Chrisss Nofff; 02-21-2015, 09:29 PM.

  • Waidmann
    replied
    Originally posted by Snake View Post
    if I have to bitch about something
    You don't have to.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rose
    replied
    Is there a way you can stop a thread from showing up in the "what's new" on the forum frontpage?

    Leave a comment:


  • Maya
    replied
    I'm sure many people is interested in this thread, not only for criticsm, just because They are curious.

    I'll go for some peanuts

    Leave a comment:


  • Snake
    replied
    The fact that the DVD is a blend of NY, Montreal and Mexico does not personally upset me. In fact, if I have to bitch about something it gotta be the editing. Too many quick cuts between shots, the GoPros have shitty quality and look terrible in the blu ray edition, and they made a shit job out of showcasing the pyro, the light effects, and the stage. It has less continuity errors than Volkerball, but editing wise, it is not much better, and in some aspects is worse.

    Having said that and going back on topic, I think the stopwatching and measuring of Chrisss are not that silly, given that the delivered product was marketed as being a live show from the USA, and then in the end it is mostly comprised by footage/audio that are not from that event.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rose
    replied
    There is no suspicion, it's a fact, it says so in the end credits. There is footage from both Montreal and Mexico. But why sit with a stopwatch and measure it, that is what I cannot understand. You started before it was even released, and now you go on and on. Just sit back and enjoy it . . . please, pretty please

    Leave a comment:


  • Chrisss Nofff
    replied
    Originally posted by Art in Heaven View Post
    So if/when the Bercy gig comes out will you dedicate a whole thread to what song or indeed perhaps 3 seconds of a song was filmed on a particular day?
    When you got the Rammstein in Amerika DVD/Bluray, did you actually watch it and enjoy it, or were you sitting there with a notepad as you flicked between the DVD and YouTube footage of random gigs?
    What I'm trying to say is, why do you care?

    No, the first few times I watched it I was completely open minded and just accepted it for what it was. My point is, there are always going to be discussions if something was edited or not, and how the "actual" show was. This thread is here to only point out these things. I noticed these imperfections after viewing it several times.


    And again, don't take this as criticsm or complaining. I am sure that there are forums with even less relevant threads than this. Snake simply said that there is suspicion that the audio and video footage isn't completely from MSG, and I simply gave my take on the whole thing.


    That being said, yes I DID like "Live from Madison Square Garden". The sound quality is flawless, the picture is sharp and clear, the coloring and grading works really well. It's overall a good product. I have my personal opinions about it, but they are only my opinions.
    Last edited by Chrisss Nofff; 10-30-2015, 03:14 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Maya
    replied
    Maybe, it would be funny... and a way to find out from which day were the images. xD

    Leave a comment:


  • Snake
    replied
    ^Maybe you will spot the Portuguese flag. But that is a huge "maybe".
    Last edited by Snake; 10-30-2015, 03:08 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Maya
    replied
    I'm glad to say I just watch it and enjoy it, and I wonder if the Bercy thread will be dedicated to find Snake...

    Leave a comment:


  • Art in Heaven
    replied
    So if/when the Bercy gig comes out will you dedicate a whole thread to what song or indeed perhaps 3 seconds of a song was filmed on a particular day?
    When you got the Rammstein in Amerika DVD/Bluray, did you actually watch it and enjoy it, or were you sitting there with a notepad as you flicked between the DVD and YouTube footage of random gigs?
    What I'm trying to say is, why do you care?

    Leave a comment:


  • Chrisss Nofff
    replied
    Originally posted by The Rose View Post
    And here you go again. Nitpicking, who gives a flying fart
    Don't judge me.....I can't help it.....

    Originally posted by Waidmann View Post
    Now I follow, Chrisss (I think).
    Yes, now you do

    Originally posted by Waidmann View Post
    Not sure if those changes were really necessary though. Despite some small misfortunes during the NY concert, I guess it was great. But maybe not entirely representative for their tour / stunts / etc. and therefore they changed so much? And surely the name MSG is a ticket seller, adding to the epicness of the concert.
    They usually film two shows in case something goes terribly wrong the first time. In "Live Aus Berlin" and in the "Brixton Academy" segment, this worked really well since the band played several days at these same veneus. The Nimes concert and the MSG show we're of course only one day-shows. They needed to film additional footage for back-up. However it might seem they felt so pleased after the Montreal concert that they only set up a few cameras during the ACTUAL show. It seems weird calling your dvd "Live from MSG", but like you said, that was the whole point of this release. In any case, all those problems won't be on the Bercy-DVD since they played two days in a row in that arena.

    Done and Dusted have done a great job with releasing Rammstein's live material, but I am really excited to see what Åkerlund is up to.

    Leave a comment:


  • Waidmann
    replied
    Now I follow, Chrisss (I think). Not sure if those changes were really necessary though. Despite some small misfortunes during the NY concert, I guess it was great. But maybe not entirely representative for their tour / stunts / etc. and therefore they changed so much? And surely the name MSG is a ticket seller, adding to the epicness of the concert.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Rose
    replied
    And here you go again. Nitpicking, who gives a flying fart

    Leave a comment:


  • Chrisss Nofff
    replied
    Just to make things clear, I have always stated that I find "Rammstein in Amerika" to be a high quality product. I have enjoyed the overal concertmovie, and I can understand that the band wanted to change some things here and there. When I started this thread my intentions were to simply point out what exactley Rammstein fixes or redubs in their live material. Although I usually dislike redubs, my posts weren't meant as pure critcism.

    I even love parts of this release. "Wiener Blut" doesn't need a music video anymore, the performance seen on "Live from MSG" IS in my opinion a perfect music video. The same goes for "Waidmanns Heil" and "B*******". It doesn't top "Live aus Berlin" in my opinion, and I'm sure I will like the Bercy-DVD more, but don't forget I do enjoy this release.

    That being said, there are a few things which I can't get pass. Remember these are just my personal opinions. I don't need to make an analysis of the camera-angles vs. pictures of the stage like some fanpages have done. The easiest way to know that the majority is probably from Montreal, is by looking at Till during Rammlied. In New York he was covered with coffee-body paint and make-up, in Montreal he was pretty much clean. If you look at the Rammlied-video now, you will know were most footage comes from.

    If you add what I mentioned above, and the fact that not all audio comes from New York, I can't really take the title "Live from Madison Square Garden" that seriously. I don't feel like nitpicking the release to death, I just wanted to point out the few things that just lower the score in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:

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